In 1996, the Taliban seized control of Kabul, Afghanistan, and imposed strict rules for Afghanis. Speaking on WNYC’s Brian Lehrer Show, Carnegie’s Sarah Chayes looked back at that moment as a pivot point for the rise of radical Islam and the roots of terrorism still being felt today. Chayes also argued that when it comes to U.S. foreign policy, use of force should be used to support democracy, and not the other way around.

This interview was originally broadcast by WNYC’s Brian Lehrer Show.