Prospects for the Russia-U.S. Partnership and Interparliamentary Relations

Speaker: Sergey Mironov, Chairman of the Federation Council of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation

Moderator: Anders Åslund, Carnegie Endowment

ANDERS ÅSLUND: Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Anders Åslund. For the Carnegie Endowment, it is today a great pleasure and honor to introduce to you Sergey Mironov, the Chairman of the Federation Council of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation. That is, in American talk, Chairman of the Senate. Mr. Mironov has a long career behind him in St. Petersburg, and he has been Chairman of the Legislative Assembly there, and he has been a member of the Senate for a number of years, and now Chairman.

I should also say that we have with us here in the room, first of all I would like to mention Ambassador Ushakov, to whom we are very grateful for having arranged this as part of senate-to-senate trade. And we have also Yury Sharandin, the Chairman of the Committee for Constitutional Law of the Federation Council; and Igor Glukhovskiy, a member of the Committee for Foreign Affairs; and Mikhail Margelov is not here, he should be coming any minute, who is the Chairman of the Committee for Foreign Affairs. And also, for the audience, so that you are aware of these people so that if there are certain questions they would like to speak out.

And the topic for today is "Prospects for the Russia-US Partnership and Interparliamentary Relations."

Mr. Mironov, the floor is yours - most welcome.

[NOTE: Mr. Mironov's comments are through an interpreter.]

SERGEY MIRONOV: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I am glad to have an opportunity to be here with you at a very renowned American institution, which has a well-deserved international reputation. And this institution hosts a number of very renowned scientists and scholars, and the Carnegie Endowment also has a well-deserved reputation in the science and academic world and in political circles.

It gives me special pleasure to speak about your activities in Russia where you currently are implementing a number of very interesting programs. We are developing joint projects in the area of science education, and that, most importantly, means that we are deepening our partnership and friendship relations between our countries.

This experience of interaction can only be welcomed, and it should be always promoted and fostered in any possible way, because it is the researchers, the scholars that comprise the intellectual elite of Russia and the United States, and they help the politicians shape the relations between our countries, they determine the spirit and content of those relations, and they urge the politicians to seek joint responses to the global challenges of the 21st century and to shape common values that are necessary for the entire mankind.

Ladies and gentlemen, mankind had entered a new era, a new century, a third millennium, and what place will Russia have in this millennium? Will it manage to fit into the new geopolitical, financial, economical, and cultural reality? Will we be able to expand our authority, our autonomy, independence, and also preserve integrity of Russia? And will we finally be able to preserve the most important treasure of our country, its intellectual resources?

Right now in Russia there is a very acute debate about national identity: what should this national identity be and how should it fit and comprise the strategy of the country's development? What should we do in order to wake up the public to make the next leap into the future? I believe that on the one hand, this idea should be based, historically, on the spiritual, social, and cultural values that are historically intrinsic in the Russian nation. On the other hand, it should also integrate the notions, the goals and ideas and targets of the government officials, of the government in the area of country development, nation building, education, science, defense, national security, territorial integrity, and independence of the Russian state.

And finally, a no less important integral part of this idea, of this identity should be such things as personal freedom, the right to choose, human rights, and market economy. Only by mobilizing the intellectual capacity, intellectual potential of our nation will we be able to drastically change the situation, address not only the economic challenges but also improve, for the better, the quality of life the Russian people. This is why we value so much our cooperation with the Carnegie Endowment, with your scholars and experts. We also value very much and appreciate very much the fact that Russian scholars are cooperating with the Carnegie Endowment and actually are testing and enriching their own notions, ideas, concepts and programs.

I perfectly understand that in the amount of time that I have for this speech I cannot touch upon all the issues, all the challenges facing Russia nowadays. That is why probably I will just speak a little bit about the situation in the Russian Federation and then during the Q&A session I can address specific issues related to Russian-American cooperation.

The real values of federalism have begun to take root in Russia quite recently, and real implementation of federal relations -- federalistic relations in Russia began only in the '90s of the previous century. One of the milestones of this very challenging path was the adoption 10 years ago of the new constitution, the constitution which was adopted thorough referendum, and under that constitution, the Russian regions that have for a long time been considered just administrative units actually acquired a status of full-fledged members of the federation. Thereby, our country made a huge step towards building a full-fledged Russia and full-fledged federation after 70 years of the so-called Soviet federalism.

And the necessary experience of Russian parliamentarism was acquired in a historically challenging period as our country was enhancing political stability. And the modern Russian parliament, the Federation Council and the Federal Assembly, which was formed on the basis of the constitution of 1993, is turning 10 years this year. And from its inception, the Federal Assembly was a two-chamber body that comprises the State Duma and the Federation Council, which, in public opinion or in the public psyche, serves the purpose of the chamber of the regions - the chamber where the regions are represented.

For our chamber of the Federal Assembly, in the first 10 years of its existence was the period of dynamic change. Today this is the third scenario of how the chamber is being elected in the past 10 years. This is the third procedural change. The previous body of the Federation Council comprised heads of legislative and executive branches of the Federation - subjects of the Federation, which were very often interested in just addressing the problems of their own regions and therefore did not address or did not spend too much time addressing the federal issues.

The new procedure for electing the Federation Council, according to which senators are now elected to serve professionally full time, gives the members of the Federation Council the ability to focus on federal legislative work. Right now the Federation Council comprises two representatives of the legislative and executive bodies of each region, or of each subject of the Federation, and they are actually representatives, not heads of the respective branches.

And right now in Russia there is also debate - in the Federation Council there is debate regarding the new procedure, the possible adoption of a new procedure for electing members of the Federation Council, and people are circulating the idea, which I personally support, that we should actually elect members of the Federation Council, but not the way the deputies are elected in the State Duma, during the general election in one day, but gradually as the elections to local, to federal - to original authorities are being elected.

One of the priorities in the work of the Federation Council right now is to optimize the mechanisms of interaction of the chamber with regional authorities, with regional branches of power, and a special role in this process is played by - a special emphasis is placed on perfecting the forms and methods of cooperation with regional elected bodies. And right now we also have new changes to the Federation Council, and after the sixth attempt - there have been five attempts in the past, but after the sixth attempt we managed to actually create the Council of Russian Legislators, which represents heads of legislative bodies of the regions. And this body meets once every three months or once every six months, and the President of the Russian Federation participates in the work of this body about once every six months.

And I'd like to note that the upper chambers of parliament in general play a stabilizing role, not only in enhancing the federative underpinnings in the country, but also a stabilizing role for the domestic policy and the political situation in the country, and unlike the lower chambers, they are less subject to political fights or political debate, and they are more stable in their constitution. And for Russia, as a country with a young democracy, it plays a very special importance.

And right now Russia is heading into a very long and very responsible period of elections. First we will be electing deputies to the State Duma in December, and then in March of next year we will be electing a President of Russia. Of course the upcoming elections have their own reflection, their own impact on the political situation in the country. At the same time, the Federation Council, in its work, is not directly linked to - is not directly related to or affected by election cycles, and it is actually the link between the federal and regional levels of authority and has very deep roots in the subjects of the Russian Federation. Thereby, this pact increases the stabilizing role of the Federation Council for the objective reasons that I mentioned.

The presidential and the Duma elections right now, and the electoral campaign in Russia, will be conducted on the basis of the new election law. And as a result of political change, the role of political parties has been significantly changed in shaping the bodies of government authority. And in the past, it was done on the basis of proportionality, and this principle of proportionality accounted for half of the deputies of the lower chamber. Right now this principle also covers all regional parliaments.

And if we try to characterize, in general, the modern stage of development of Russia, then I would say that this is a period of transition to a stable, sustainable, and continuous development. And this particular notion has allowed the leadership of the country to undertake a new stage of reform and of change on the basis of stable development of the country, and I'm sure that this time will most likely enter the Russian history as a period of large-scale reform that comprises practically all areas of Russian society and Russian state.

Right now we can list at least over 10 major reforms that are being officially implemented in the country. Those include political, legal, military, administrative reforms, reform of the electoral system, of national monopolies, education and science area, of tax, pension, federative, and municipal reforms. Their major goal is to lead Russia to a principally new and to shift and to lift Russia to a principally new level of economic, social, and democratic development, and we hope to succeed there.

And now a few words about the Russian-American cooperation. Russia and the United States have a very broad base for productive cooperation, and I'd like to expand on a few of them. And the positions, the approaches of our countries, concur on the issue of the need to form a new international ecosystem that would clearly codify the conditions and the procedures for addressing and neutralizing threats and challenges to international security. Also, this goes for use of international coalitions and the international coalition forces that would establish the collective nature of addressing the new challenges.

The basis of these changes could be the modernized, updated, and reformed U.N., the United Nations organization, and as far as this issue is concerned, our American colleagues and the Russians have a very broad area for discussion and consultation. The past years have witnessed discussion on the areas and directions of strategic partnership between our two countries, and we can state right now that, thanks to very close contacts between our presidents, Russia and the United States have managed to identify major areas of strategic cooperation. And among other things, I should mention the following areas of cooperation:

Firstly, this is the work in the international political area, which envisages joint participation in addressing international and regional military and political conflicts as well as interaction in the work within international organizations and associations.

The second area of such cooperation is the military and strategic area that spans issues of disarmament, participation in nuclear defense, reduction of strategic offensive potentials, and also nonproliferation of weapons of mass destruction.

The third area for cooperation is the counterterrorist area, which envisages creation of the antiterrorism international, and a more close coordination of the counterterrorism efforts of our countries and the respective special services and agencies.

The fourth area of cooperation is developing of the energy potential, and this means the projects for shipment of Russian liquefied natural gas and oil to the United States that allows the United States to diversify its energy sources and also which has a very positive impact on the development of the world economy in general.

And the fifth area of cooperation is the area where we should work to remove barriers and limitations that hinder development of mutually beneficial trade and economic relations.

The sixth area is cooperation on issues regarding the fight against AIDS, and the seventh area is cooperation in space exploration.

And of course this list of areas could be continued, and I am confident that we will have new areas of activity where we could cooperate constructively and interact on a long-term basis. An important role in this interaction could be played by the Federation Council and the U.S. Senate, which, for the first time in history, are approaching the signing of a special document of cooperation.

My dear friends, summing up and completing this speech, I would like to wish you new academic and scientific breakthroughs and achievements, and of course continue the development and prosperity of your foundation. The Russian side highly values its activities and Russian academic circles are very willing to cooperate with you.

Thank you for you attention.

(Applause.)

Thank you very much. And as we agreed, I am ready to take your questions.

MR. ÅSLUND: Before we go into the questions I would like to introduce Mikhail Margelov, the Chairman of the Committee for Foreign Affairs of the Federation Council.

And please, the floor is open for questions. I should say thank you very much for your kind words and warm words about the Carnegie Endowment. We really and truly appreciated that and we are trying to do our best.

Yes, please. Please introduce yourself by name and institution.

Q: Michele Kelemen with National Public Radio. You talked about the strategic partnership with the U.S., but a senior State Department official said today that confidence may be eroded -- this relationship may be eroded because of the Khodorkovsky affair, and I want to know, what are you telling U.S. officials about this? Are you hearing concerns about what this means for the Russian energy sector?

MR. MIRONOV: First of all, I don't think that the Yukos affair and the arrest of Mr. Khodorkovsky will affect the strategic relationship, the strategic cooperation between Russia and the United States. And we should clearly distinguish and place the proper accents here. First of all, this Yukos investigation is not political or economic; it's a criminal investigation. And it's about tax evasion, and according to the estimates of the investigative bodies, Mr. Khodorkovsky has actually incurred damage - inflicted damage, fiscal damage on the Russian Federation in the amount of at least $1 billion.

Well, the issue of this issue of tax evasion, well, tax evasion is a great crime, and the same here, as far as I know. In the United States, tax evasion is a grave crime, and just last year we all have heard and have seen the footage of some heads of companies in the United States being accused of tax evasion and nobody said that Russian-American strategic relations were being eroded as a result of that.

Well, right now, at this moment, Mr. Khodorkovsky has been charged, he's indicted, and he has not been sentenced and it's still in the process of hearings. And the court and the court hearings should establish his guilt, whether he is guilty or not, and this should be done through open court hearings, and we should leave the job for the Prosecutor General's Office to actually prove that Mr. Khodorkovsky is guilty, and if he's guilty he will be punished. If not, then we will have certain issues regarding the work of the Prosecutor General's Office. But still, I'd like to emphasize that only the court has the authority to decide whether a person is guilty or not, and only - and this should be done in open court procedures, in open court hearings. And again, I'd like to emphasize that we're not talking about political or economic trial; this is purely a criminal case regarding tax evasion.

And I would also like to add that right now there is certain speculation, not only here in the West but also in the Russian Federation, regarding possible revision of the results of the privatization. Well, I would like to make an official statement that the leadership of the Russian Federation, including the leadership of the legislative branches, believe that it is impossible to conduct revision of this prioritization, although of course sometimes privatization may not have been conducted flawlessly, but still, there should be no revision of privatization.

Secondly, the charges regarding Mr. Khodorkovsky do not relate to revision of privatization results. The seven counts in this case, the seven counts on which he is indicted, concern reselling of shares in 1994 of a company named Apatit, selling of shares in the secondary market. And other counts include violation of tax laws from 1998 through 2001. And these counts and these indictments do not relate to any revision of the results of the privatization, and you should understand this clearly. And this could not be done any other way. Russia cannot have it any other way.

In the past three years, the leadership of Russia, President Putin, has made sure that Russia has passed the point of no return, and there will be no turning back, and now we're heading towards a democratic state and a market economy, and we should all understand it.

MR. ÅSLUND: Thank you very much.

Questions? Harley Balzer, Georgetown University.

Q: A lot of people in the West learned your name when you first raised the question of adjusting the term that the Russian president would be in office. And I'm wondering if your thinking on that has changed over the last few years or whether you think this would still be a good idea.

MR. MIRONOV: My point of view has not changed, and I believe that in the transition period that Russia now finds itself in, according to my personal estimates, this period will take a few decades. I believe that for those particular reasons, a four-year term of the president is too short.

And to substantiate my reasoning, I provide two major points. Russia is a large country geographically and economically. That is why as soon as a president enters into office, it takes him about a year, a year and a half just to get a grip on what's happening in the country. Then he has about a year on his hands to do real work, and then there comes a time when he has to start thinking about reelection.

And secondly, I believe that we should try to differentiate and to move away in time as far away as possible the election dates for the State Duma and the presidential election. And right now what we're seeing is there is an election campaign for the State Duma, which will be finished by December 7th, and almost in no time after that will the presidential election campaign begin. And it's no secret that the State Duma deputies that are campaigning for reelection of the Duma are also, at the same time, campaigning for their - already campaigning for their presidential election, because some of them have presidential ambitions.

And this is just an idea, but if we talk about the specifics, well, I believe that the president's term should be expanded by one year, extended by one year to five years. And I never actually talked about -- or said anything about extending it to seven years because the experience of France shows that there were reasons behind their decision to change their laws and have the president serve for five years instead of seven years.

And I never said that the law regarding the term of the president should be changed right now regarding the current serving president, and I reiterated a number of times that if we change the constitution regarding the term of the president, then if we change this part then we have to change the constitution, and I do not favor any changes to the current constitution because I believe that this is not the best time to do that, and also that the Russian constitution has not exhausted all of its potential right now. Yet still I am of the opinion that in the future, probably in the distant future, this issue will have to be revisited.

MR. ÅSLUND: Could I add in that context, Pavel Borodin, now a representative of Eurasian Party, suggested that there will be a union of Belarus and Russia, then with Ukraine then with Kazakhstan. And as for state changes, President Putin could be elected for another two four-year terms in each case. Could you comment on that statement?

MR. MIRONOV: Well, I would not - don't want to comment on any remarks by Mr. Borodin because while he is known for his extraordinary statements and - but I personally believe that in the near future, there will be no changes in the constitution.

MR. ASLUND: Thank you. Yes, please?

Q: Dimitri Nikonov, University of Georgia. You have mentioned a potential for security cooperation between the Russian and U.S. legislatures. Traditionally, the security area is a prerogative of the legislative - I'm sorry, executive branches rather than the legislative branches. What do you think specifically, or could you elaborate in what potential areas the two legislatures could cooperate? Thank you.

MR. MIRONOV: Well, in this case, I would like to remind you of the certain authorities that the Federation Council is endowed with under the constitution. While the issue of war and peace, the declaration of emergencies - military emergencies - and also the use of armed forces of the Russian Federation abroad are all the issues that fall under the prerogative of the Federation Council, of the legislative branch. And when we talk to our U.S. colleagues about ensuring security and taking extra measures for ensuring security in the world, including peacekeeping operations under the U.N., these are all the issues that fall under the authority of the legislative branch, of the Federation Council. And also, I would like to remind you that as chairman of the Federation Council, I am also ex officio the permanent member of the Security Council of Russia. And I am aware of very wide-ranging authority of the United States Senate on those issues. That is why I think we have a lot of scope, a lot of room for discussion between our two bodies.

MR. ASLUND: Questions? Yes, please?

Q: I'm McKinney Russell, the Public Diplomacy Counsel. The American Congress has tried very hard over the last four years to provide many opportunities for members of the political class in the Russian Federation to come to this country on short visits to get acquainted with our country and our political system. The number I think may be as high as 6,000 or 6,500. I would be interested in knowing, Mr. Mironov, what is your view from your position about the value of these kinds of exchanges, and might they take on a broader form, perhaps in the direction of bringing American legislators to get to know the Russian Federation better than they do now?

MR. MIRONOV: And this is a very good idea, actually, and today, after we meet in the Senate and after we sign the memorandum on cooperation, we will actually circulate an idea of conducting in 2004 in Moscow information council the days of the United States Senate information council. And I believe it's a very good idea, and I hope that our American colleagues will endorse this idea, well at least we will discuss it. And regarding those exchanges that you mentioned, I believe this is a very positive and useful element of bilateral relations.

And I believe you were referring to the exchanges under the aegis of the United States Library of Congress, the Open World Program, that enables thousands of Russians, including the politicians, to come to the United States. And I think it is a very good idea and it's very good for our bilateral relations, but this should be done on a reciprocal basis, and that is why I think that there should be also Americans going to Russia, including American legislators, to get a better understanding and a feel of the situation in Russia so that later they will not have any questions regarding Mr. Khodorkovsky and they will not even have - voice any ideas regarding possible revision of prioritization results in Russia. And in general, I believe this is a very good idea and this process is very positive, and it should be promoted in any possible way. Thank you for your question.

MR. ÅSLUND: George Kolt, National Intelligence Council.

Q: Okay. I have a question on the strategic relationship, which you spoke about. But first a remark about Mr. Khodorkovsky. The prosecution of Mr. Khodorkovsky is negatively effecting the view of Russia in this country, and unless he gets the fair and transparent trial which you have spoke about and it is shown why he was singled out for prosecution - whereas it was impossible to operate in Russia paying full taxes as shown by the reform of the tax law - unless that happens, I think it will continue to effect the relationship negatively.

Now to my questions. You may want to answer that, too, but now to my questions on the relationship. Your call for a positive relationship is certainly welcome. Twofold question: one, are your views generally shared by your fellow members of the Council of Federation, or do others have different views? And in your opinion, what should be the main elements of the strategic relationship between Russia and the United States?

MR. MIRONOV: I will start from the last question, regarding the elements of strategic cooperation. I talked about it extensively here. I mentioned seven points, so this probably does not need any clarification.

And regarding the case of Mr. Khodorkovsky, I think that we should wait until the investigation is over and we should not jump to any conclusions right now. We should wait until the investigation is over and wait for open court hearings, and this process should be contested in open court. This case should be contested - in open court, we will hear the arguments of the defense and the prosecution. It will be a public debate, and after - as soon as the debate is over - we will know where the truth lies. So let's wait until the court hearing is over.

And regarding the strategic operation between Russia and the United States, well, I would like to let my colleagues speak. We have three of my colleagues here and we all represent different regions. I myself represent St. Petersburg. Mr. Margelov represents the Pskov region, and the other two colleagues represent the Evenki Autonomous Region and the Jewish Autonomous Region as well. So I will give them about half a minute, a minute to express themselves.

MR. MARGELOV: Well, my point of view is very well known here in the U.S. I can repeat it again. Both countries need strategic partnership and my committee, Committee for Foreign Affairs, and the Federation Council is working hard to maintain and to develop a strategic partnership with our American partners.

Two-and-a-half years ago, we approached our colleagues in the U.S. Senate with the idea of creating a U.S. Senate-Council of Federation working group. It is being institutionalized officially according to the procedure on Capitol Hill. We have institutionalized that working group in Russia. So I think my point of view is quite clear and the point of view of the members of my committee is quite clear, and you draw it very well. (Laughter.)

YURY A. SHARANDIN (THROUGH INTERPRETER): I'm Mr. Sharandin. And as a legislative person who actually works on creating new laws, I believe that the concurring point or the concurring area of interaction where we should work together is to adopt the similar and concurring volumes, and the nature of standards that we're working on. They should be similar in volume and in their content.

And the constitution of the Russian Federation says that all types of ownership, whether it be state, cooperative, private, or religious property or ownership, should enjoy equal protection. I believe that a very good area for our prospective cooperation is discussion of the approach - not just the approaches, but the approaches to the content: what do we understand under those definitions, and under what the constitution stipulates?

And the chapter two of the Russian constitution almost verbatim repeats the certain provisions of the European Convention on Human Rights, which in turn is very close in the phrasing to the International Pact on Human Rights, which was adopted in New York. And that is why I invite U.S. and Russians, just the U.S. legislators, journalists, and public figures to engage in a discussion to make sure that our laws, our legislation, is endowed with the same content and with the same meaning.

MR. GLUKHOVSKIY: Well, our colleagues - my colleagues practically covered most of the areas of our cooperation, and well, actually - practically I have nothing else to add except that we are the two largest, greatest countries, and we should continue to develop our partnership whether some of us like it or not. Thank you.

MR. ÅSLUND: Thank you very much. Kempton Jenkins, the U.S.-Ukraine Business Council?

Q: My question really doesn't have anything to do with Ukraine or the Business Council. It is a follow up on McKinney Russell's point. Mr. Mironov, I wonder whether you would agree to take it upon yourself, particularly having your colleagues here - we have an unusually powerful collection of legislators - to establish an institutional base in Moscow to carry out the reciprocal visits under the Open World Program in partnership with the Library of Congress. I think the problems that we have faced in getting the flow going the other way is there really isn't an institutional base there to make that happen, and I would hope that you would take that on and that we can all work with you to make that happen.

MR. MIRONOV: And of course, the Federation Council is the best possible institutional basis for that, and we very much support the idea. And the upper chamber is ready to engage in this cooperation. And I think Mr. Margelov pointed to -

MR. MARGELOV: Yeah. Actually, about a year ago we agreed with James Billington that the staff of Foreign Affairs Committee can work as a docking mechanism for that program. And if it is not enough, we can create an NGO or I don't know what for that. So I think we shall continue with James Billington in the dialogue about the mechanism today when we meet. Thank you.

MR. ÅSLUND: Thank you very much. Yes? Rose Gottemoeller, the Carnegie Endowment?

Q: Mr. Mironov, thank you very much, again, for coming to the Endowment and for your kind words. I have appreciated very much working with your staff on the Federation Council over the years. You have some very talented people.

My question is as follows. You have spoken about the presidential election in the Russian Federation. Of course, hard on the heels of the election in Russia, we have a presidential election coming in the United States, and I wonder if you foresee any special dynamics emerging from the presidential election here in the United States. Will it complicate the work of U.S.-Russian relations, or will we be able to maintain momentum during the U.S. presidential elections? Thank you.

MR. MIRONOV: Well, first of all, I would like to say that the election campaign in each of the countries - in any country - is an internal affair of this particular country and should not spill over to other countries.

And still, I believe that the dynamics and the history of partner relations between Russia and the United States in the past year, few years, shows that eventually, it's not the personalities or the certain people that determine them, but it's actually between our nations and our two countries. And I don't think that the election campaign will actually have a very significant impact and affect the positive things that have been achieved within the framework of our bilateral cooperation.

Of course, we in Russia are not indifferent to what is happening here in the United States during the election period, just as here in the United States I'm sure you will follow closely the presidential campaign in the Russian Federation. But anyway, I believe that this will not have any serious impact, and I believe that our relations will continue to develop as they have.

MR. ÅSLUND: Thank you. Ambassador James Goodby, Brookings Institution?

Q: Mr. Chairman, I wonder if you or perhaps your colleagues could give us your reflections on how you see the future of U.S.-Russian cooperation or perhaps even conflict with regard to Iraq. How would you like to see the situation evolve? Where are the pitfalls that you think need to be avoided? Is there any possibility of debt forgiveness in the case of Iraq? And any other reflections that you would like to offer us with regard to this question. Thank you.

MR. MIRONOV: And I would like to say that although Russia had its own approach and has its own approach to the military campaign in Iraq, Russia and the United States are working effectively in achieving peaceful settlement in Iraq. And just to illustrate my point, I would like to say that the resolution - United States (sic) Security Council Resolution 1511 was adopted unanimously. And this is a very important step in the right direction, but by no means the last step. And I'm sure that other resolutions may be needed to ensure smooth postwar reconstruction and settlement in Iraq.

And I believe that - we should also recall a very positive experience of cooperation that our two countries have in Afghanistan, and it was a pleasure for me to hear Senator Lugar mention this when we discussed it today. And he said that the experience of our cooperation in Afghanistan could probably be duplicated in Iraq, and we could also create an equivalent of loya jirga and use it as the basis for shaping other executive and other bodies of government in Iraq, and I believe this is a very important and interesting issue that we can cooperate on.

And of course, it would be wrong for me to paint an idealistic picture of what's happening in Iraq and of the Russian-U.S. relations regarding the situation in Iraq. Certainly, there are certain issues that require resolution. And regarding direct military involvement or military cooperation, we believe that right now there are no proper conditions for Russia to send its military contingents to Iraq.

But regarding such areas as political settlement or shaping of the executive bodies or government or economic cooperation, in all those areas, Russian experts and political - and politicians and political experts have very valuable experience in Iraq of experience of working with the population and working in the country, and I believe that this experience could be capitalized on. And Russian companies have their own ideas, have their own proposals and business offers that they can contribute to economic rehabilitation of the country. But still, we're not getting any clear responses or any clear answers to those offers and we're being told that companies can participate - Russian companies can participate - on an equal basis, on a tender basis, but we don't see any real change there.

And so, on the one hand, I don't want to idealize the situation regarding our cooperation, but on the other hand, I would like to say that there has been more constructive substance in our relations than problems. That is why I believe that we should continue to move forward and also employ and engage the potential of the legislative branches, especially the United States Senate and the Federation Council.

MR. ÅSLUND: Thank you. Julie Corwin, Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty?

Q: I have a question about another former Yukos executive. I believe his name is Shakhnovsky. Could you tell me if - when the Federation Council is going to decide on his position as senator for Evenki, and perhaps the legislator from Evenki would also like to comment on this?

And a completely unrelated question, could you comment on the persistence of news reports that some senatorships in the Federation Council have been bought? These news reports have appeared with a lot of frequency. Have you investigated any of these charges? What do you think about it?

MR. MIRONOV: I myself am not aware of any concrete cases of buying of places - of senator places in the Federation Council. If I were to attain any proof or any information substantiating that claim, I would of course pass it over to the prosecutorial bodies and have them investigate it.

Well, this is what - I personally do not know any such instances, and this is what we call or you call commonplace, when people perceive that this is happening, people talk about it. But if - but every fact have a real name behind it, real allegation, substantiated allegation, and I don't know any such cases. And if I were to obtain information, I'm sure that our law enforcement authorities would have stepped in and taken care of that.

And also, I would like to say a few words about Mr. Shakhnovsky and then I will pass the floor to my colleague. As to Mr. Shakhnovsky, according to the constitutional law that provides for the composition of the Federation Council, Mr. Shakhnovsky becomes member of the Federation Council on the date of his election to the council by the respective legislative body, of the Evenki Autonomous Region. This is just the legal part of the story, but the factual part is Mr. Shakhnovsky will not be able to work - will not - in the Federation Council, will not be able to receive any identification document of the Federation Council until there is a formal hearing, where he will have to be confirmed by the Federation Council as a member. And if all of his papers are in order and if all of his papers are correct, then we have no reason not to confirm Mr. Shakhnovsky as a member of the Federation Council at the - in the closest, nearest hearing that we will hold on November 26.

And regarding the Federation Council and the agenda of its daily, day-to-day operations, the agenda of the Federation Council is handled by the special committee on agenda and operations, and when - as are normally as a rule, when someone's membership in the Federation Council is contested in court, the respective agenda committee postpones the hearing on confirmation of this or that member as a senator. And normally it decides to - so this committee decides to abstain and put off the hearing. And I don't know what will happen in this particular instance, but I don't rule out that the committee will decide to wait. But if there is no court hearing and if Mr. Shakhnovsky's candidature is not contested in court, then we will have no legal reasons not to confirm him at the next hearing.

MR. SHARANDIN (THROUGH INTERPRETER): My dear colleagues, today the name Evenki Autonomous Region is being voiced more and more often, more than at any time in the past. And this is a very positive result - this is a very positive statement from me, although you know what region I represent and what governor I represent. So this is just some kind of a promotion of our region. (Laughter.)

I represent the governor of the region, but Mr. Shakhnovsky represents the legislative body of this region. The Evenki Autonomous Region has 20,000 people of population. The legislative assembly of this region has 23 members, and the - only 21 deputies met when the extraordinary meeting of this legislative body, or Soglan (ph) as they call it, was convened. Just two of them were not - we could not find the remaining two of them in the forest, in taiga. And I'm not kidding: they are hunters, so they were probably hunting somewhere. (Laughter.) Twenty-one deputies present voted for Mr. Shakhnovsky. So what I told you - everything I told you is the truth because I was there at that meeting, at that extraordinary meeting.

And so, what I'm driving at is that when you have just 21 deputies and only 20,000 people, you are certain that if something was wrong and 21 - 21 out of the 21 voted for Mr. Shakhnovsky. If something was wrong, people, of course, would know it, and it's impossible to keep things secret when you have just 21 person and you have 20,000. I mean, the people are bound to learn sooner or later. That is why if 21 people voted for Mr. Shakhnovsky out of 21, then everything must have been okay.

MR. MIRONOV: And I would like to ask my colleague whether we should expect any surprises when the other two return back from hunting. (Laughter.)

MR. ÅSLUND: Okay?

Q (THROUGH INTERPRETER): Anna Åslund, American Media Abroad. I don't know who this question goes to, but it was really fine to hear that many high-ranking officials here talking about where the Russian Federation moving/advancing toward a democratic state and a market economy because sometimes, here in the United States, things are portrayed a bit different and you have a different perception. But anyway, there are a lot of other small issues that I would like to touch upon.

Let's assume as a statement of fact that Mr. Khodorkovsky is guilty of violating tax laws. But this is an economic crime, so why is he being held in jail - in a notorious jail - for the past 10 days? Why could not he be just release on bond and bailed out, and that's it? And I know also from press coverage that a lot of people actually offered to vouch for Mr. Khodorkovsky. Why was not this course of action taken?

MR. SHARANDIN: Legally, the decision to detain a person is taken by the investigator and has to be confirmed by a judge, by a court. That is why we should probably talk about the fact that right now Russia has no traditions of such cases, of having such cases tried, and of course, the United States and Europe have much more experience in trying those cases, both in the quality and the number of cases tried.

Legally, we are in the framework of law. In the field of law here, nothing was done illegally because everything was conducted under the law. However, when we talk about the habits, probably it's a different story altogether, the habits of Russians and how they do things. But anyway, the court will very soon consider the statement - the request of the lawyers of Mr. Khodorkovsky to revise this detention verdict.

MR. : And in 2002, a new criminal procedure code was adopted, and under this code the pretrial detention or any pretrial actions towards the defendant are being decided upon only by courts, and we should all view this as an achievement actually of the Russian Federation. We managed to delineate the responsibilities of the executive branch in the form of the prosecutorial bodies and the legal branch or the justice branch in the form of courts, and I believe this is a very big achievement of the Russian Federation. Thank you.

MR. ÅSLUND: I don't see any further question, then I have the last question myself. Since - (unintelligible) - have asked about the Party of Life, you have also set after a new party and of a chairman of the Party of Life, which is one of the parties in this election. Could you discuss a bit the purpose and profile of the Party of Life, and how would you distinguish it from similar parties, like United Russia and People's Party, and what do you hope for in the elections?

MR. MIRONOV: Well, in short, the main goal of our party is to improve the quality of life. The main goal of this Party of Life is to improve the quality of life - the duration, the length of one's life - and also endow this life with humanistic meaning. The foundation documents of the Russian Party of Life stipulates - actually, they make it clear that our party is the only party in the Russian Federation which has as its end goal the improvement in the quality of life of a person, and this is the end goal. And other goals that other parties proclaim as their end goals, like democratic society, market economy, et cetera, these are the means. Our party views those as the means for improving the quality of life, which for us is the end goal of our party.

And I will not go into the detail any further because I brought a few brochures with me, leaflets in English, and those materials explain the goals of our party, then they say a few words about myself. And I will leave those materials here at the Carnegie Endowment and you can have a look at them.

And summing up, I would like to thank all of you for very good and warm attitude, and for your questions, and I will see you soon, hopefully in Moscow. (Applause.)

Transcript by:
Federal News Service
Washington, D.C.